Thanks for this. The right's nonsense on London dredge up those old visions of lost Golden Ages and utopias of nostalgia – dangerous in the wrong hands. And there's an echo too of depictions of London going back to the 19th century that viewed the East End as a dark and lawless continent – then, as now, sensationalist distortion.
I am.so tired of reading comments on Facebook about losing 'our' London, and everything from knife crime to traffic being Sadiq Khan's fault. I've been in London for over sixty years, and apart from the cost and scarcity of housing, it's mainly got better. I don't know what makes these people so unhappy, but they need to grow up.
Mate, there's millions of us White Londoners in the suburbs (mine's a grotty bit of West London, lots of Middle Eastern supermarkets and African Churches and Mosques), living very happily with our "foreign" neighbours from all over the old Empire and the world, its what London is, you either get it or you don't. We are a very economically divided city with extremes of wealth and poverty, of course we have crime, but lots less than I remember in the 80s and 90s. Personally I have never experienced any crime since my car was nicked in 1992! We have better shops, food, public transport, and public spaces than ever before. Obviously you fell out of love with London, bad luck. I wouldn't live anywhere else.
Where in London? Let me tell you about Barking. It is now less than 30% British born. It was 96% British born when I was born. Some might call that ethnic displacement. It has a large self segregated asian community who choose to live by religious values that do not respect secular liberal democracy. They seek to change the UK to live by religious law. Barking is the location of the extremely violent Albanian gangs who dominate UK drug distribution. They are almost untouchable.
Barking police station had a Romanian police liaison officer who helped with the Romanian gangs who went on burgling sprees on short visits to the UK. Street crime, knife and gun crime is commonplace. Policing is merely a token activity. My brothers rented a cafe attached to their builders yard and when they said they didn't want to sell it to two east Europeans who offered to buy it with carrier bags of cash it was firebombed that night. The police gave them a crime number without investigating. My brothers gave up and moved away, like the majority of white British residents have. That is not “populist” or “racist”, it is just a statement lf fact. Please don't insult me and millions of others who were born in London, who are only being honest about how our home has been lost to the poorly managed effects and delusions of benefits related to multiculturalism and mass migration. I suggest you read the Casey Report on the failure of the UK’s multicultural and migration policy.
I live in a run-down bit of the London Borough of Ealing. The place is full of Irish Sikhs Hindus, Muslims from the old Empire, and from the Middle East and Somalia. These people are now British. I absolutely don't care how many "White British" are here. I do care that I have good neighbours, people of all religions, helping each other out, working in shops and public services, making my life easier. Children from every religion go to our local schools and my kids had friends from Muslim homes, and nobody was segregating themselves.
Again I'm sorry for your personal experiences, which made you feel you had to leave, but this hysterical nonsense about London being a crime ridden hell-hole and full of scary Islamists just means nothing to me and most Londoners. My anecdote - when a young neighbour died suddenly, devastating his family, everyone in the street, of every race and religion, visited to pay respects, moved their cars for the funeral cars, and stood in the street when the family went to the crematorium. Black Muslims, Irish Catholics, Poles, Hindus. All lined up to show solidarity with the family. That is my London.
So pleased that’s worked out nicely for you. Why not show some respect and sympathy for the many Londoners who felt they had to leave as their own culture was pushed to the side and as crime, overcrowding and pressure on local services increased. Barking had to expand 11-16 year old colleges to 4000 pupils to absorb migrant population increase. Ethnic, religious and gang rivalry does not match your Ealing utopia. English is not the main language at home for the majority of pupils. Queens hospital the main major hospital for east London is swamped. Translators are required permanently - adding to cost and delays. Foreign cultures do not adhere to visiting rules. Security guards in stab vests patrol in pairs. At B&W in Barking undocumented migrants gather to be picked up to work by builders to work for cash. Local tradesman have had their livelihoods destroyed by migrants who live in dormitories working on trades for half the rate. Barking is typical of east London. Maybe leafy west London had a privileged experience. Finally, people who object to these real problems should not be name called as populists, racists, fascist etc. if the progressive liberal left wants to help it needs to face up to reality and not deny the problems.
I find that you don't show any respect for Londoners who are different to you, or who politely explain their life experience. You have decided all the evils of a big city are down to people who worship a different god and don't (yet) speak English well. It was a White paradise before apparently. This was the stuff used against the Jewish community in the East End in the 19th century, against the immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean in the 50s, it's just tedious and cruel.
I definitely do not respect you.
Oh and for someone who left London you seem to be obsessed with its day to day doings. Maybe time to do something for your new community and leave the past behind eh? We are really going to be better off without you.
Outrageous. That is putting your words and prejudice into my mouth.
- You have decided all the evils of a big city are down to people who worship a different god
I did not say “all evils”. I am permitted to have concerns about a religion that opposes many of the basic values of a secular liberal democracy
- and don't (yet) speak English well
I made a factual reference to the strain put on an already suffering education system. As you must know, many migrant families make insufficient effort to learn English (the language of the country they choose to live in) and then expect others to pay for translation and disruption
- It was a White paradise before apparently.
incredible. You have imposed what you want to think about me without any justification. I didn’t claim there was a “white paradise”. I did make the point that the host population (not just white) have been forced to surrender their culture as other aggressive cultures have concentrated and pushed the host away. It’s a legitimate and reasoned point
- This was the stuff used against the Jewish community in the East End in the 19th century, against the immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean in the 50s, it's just tedious and cruel.
You are trying to associate my points of fact with standard stereotypes. Mass migration always results in stresses. Ask native Americans or indigenous peoples of Australia and New Zealand. It should be carefully managed. It hasn’t been.
- I definitely do not respect you. Oh and for someone who left London you seem to be obsessed with its day to day doings. Maybe time to do something for your new community and leave the past behind eh? We are really going to be better off without you.
“So there ner”. How old are you? For the record I do plenty for my local community and for people of other races and cultures. i borrowed money to sponsor a black comprehensive school student through Oxford. I successfully campaigned to increase the admissions from minorities (including the white urban poor) to Oxbridge
Sorry, but I am not the Reform, populist you like to think of when anyone suggests legitimate concerns about the negative effects of too much migration too quickly into London.
London was far from perfect before, but it has suffered serious setbacks and the fact so many of the host communities have migrated away is proof of that.
"Just look at Hungary. Look at the United States."
Not sure exactly what I'm looking at - US cities are very badly (Democrat) run while I imagine Hungarian cities are rather nice? I haven't been in ages.
London is far nicer than it was 30 years ago. Whether it is nicer than it was 10 years ago I'm not sure.
Lol. I am one of millions who have moved away from London because it has been lost to foreign cultures and values and consequently has become a place where crime has exploded and convictions disappeared. Nice try at the standard Liberal “cry wolfism” but anyone who has lived there knows the truth.
Thanks for this. The right's nonsense on London dredge up those old visions of lost Golden Ages and utopias of nostalgia – dangerous in the wrong hands. And there's an echo too of depictions of London going back to the 19th century that viewed the East End as a dark and lawless continent – then, as now, sensationalist distortion.
I am.so tired of reading comments on Facebook about losing 'our' London, and everything from knife crime to traffic being Sadiq Khan's fault. I've been in London for over sixty years, and apart from the cost and scarcity of housing, it's mainly got better. I don't know what makes these people so unhappy, but they need to grow up.
Where on Earth in London do you live..!!!!
Mate, there's millions of us White Londoners in the suburbs (mine's a grotty bit of West London, lots of Middle Eastern supermarkets and African Churches and Mosques), living very happily with our "foreign" neighbours from all over the old Empire and the world, its what London is, you either get it or you don't. We are a very economically divided city with extremes of wealth and poverty, of course we have crime, but lots less than I remember in the 80s and 90s. Personally I have never experienced any crime since my car was nicked in 1992! We have better shops, food, public transport, and public spaces than ever before. Obviously you fell out of love with London, bad luck. I wouldn't live anywhere else.
Where in London? Let me tell you about Barking. It is now less than 30% British born. It was 96% British born when I was born. Some might call that ethnic displacement. It has a large self segregated asian community who choose to live by religious values that do not respect secular liberal democracy. They seek to change the UK to live by religious law. Barking is the location of the extremely violent Albanian gangs who dominate UK drug distribution. They are almost untouchable.
Barking police station had a Romanian police liaison officer who helped with the Romanian gangs who went on burgling sprees on short visits to the UK. Street crime, knife and gun crime is commonplace. Policing is merely a token activity. My brothers rented a cafe attached to their builders yard and when they said they didn't want to sell it to two east Europeans who offered to buy it with carrier bags of cash it was firebombed that night. The police gave them a crime number without investigating. My brothers gave up and moved away, like the majority of white British residents have. That is not “populist” or “racist”, it is just a statement lf fact. Please don't insult me and millions of others who were born in London, who are only being honest about how our home has been lost to the poorly managed effects and delusions of benefits related to multiculturalism and mass migration. I suggest you read the Casey Report on the failure of the UK’s multicultural and migration policy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/kings-of-cocaine-albanian-mafia-uk-drugs-crime
I live in a run-down bit of the London Borough of Ealing. The place is full of Irish Sikhs Hindus, Muslims from the old Empire, and from the Middle East and Somalia. These people are now British. I absolutely don't care how many "White British" are here. I do care that I have good neighbours, people of all religions, helping each other out, working in shops and public services, making my life easier. Children from every religion go to our local schools and my kids had friends from Muslim homes, and nobody was segregating themselves.
Again I'm sorry for your personal experiences, which made you feel you had to leave, but this hysterical nonsense about London being a crime ridden hell-hole and full of scary Islamists just means nothing to me and most Londoners. My anecdote - when a young neighbour died suddenly, devastating his family, everyone in the street, of every race and religion, visited to pay respects, moved their cars for the funeral cars, and stood in the street when the family went to the crematorium. Black Muslims, Irish Catholics, Poles, Hindus. All lined up to show solidarity with the family. That is my London.
Spot on David!
Been in London twice in the past week. Simply don’t recognise the version of the city that these agitators portray.
London is busier (with foreigners ) than ever. But that’s down to the levels of tourism it now sees, along with every other major city in the world.
Isn’t it the job of the BBC to check the truth of the claims politicians make, and not merely repeat them?
So pleased that’s worked out nicely for you. Why not show some respect and sympathy for the many Londoners who felt they had to leave as their own culture was pushed to the side and as crime, overcrowding and pressure on local services increased. Barking had to expand 11-16 year old colleges to 4000 pupils to absorb migrant population increase. Ethnic, religious and gang rivalry does not match your Ealing utopia. English is not the main language at home for the majority of pupils. Queens hospital the main major hospital for east London is swamped. Translators are required permanently - adding to cost and delays. Foreign cultures do not adhere to visiting rules. Security guards in stab vests patrol in pairs. At B&W in Barking undocumented migrants gather to be picked up to work by builders to work for cash. Local tradesman have had their livelihoods destroyed by migrants who live in dormitories working on trades for half the rate. Barking is typical of east London. Maybe leafy west London had a privileged experience. Finally, people who object to these real problems should not be name called as populists, racists, fascist etc. if the progressive liberal left wants to help it needs to face up to reality and not deny the problems.
I find that you don't show any respect for Londoners who are different to you, or who politely explain their life experience. You have decided all the evils of a big city are down to people who worship a different god and don't (yet) speak English well. It was a White paradise before apparently. This was the stuff used against the Jewish community in the East End in the 19th century, against the immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean in the 50s, it's just tedious and cruel.
I definitely do not respect you.
Oh and for someone who left London you seem to be obsessed with its day to day doings. Maybe time to do something for your new community and leave the past behind eh? We are really going to be better off without you.
Outrageous. That is putting your words and prejudice into my mouth.
- You have decided all the evils of a big city are down to people who worship a different god
I did not say “all evils”. I am permitted to have concerns about a religion that opposes many of the basic values of a secular liberal democracy
- and don't (yet) speak English well
I made a factual reference to the strain put on an already suffering education system. As you must know, many migrant families make insufficient effort to learn English (the language of the country they choose to live in) and then expect others to pay for translation and disruption
- It was a White paradise before apparently.
incredible. You have imposed what you want to think about me without any justification. I didn’t claim there was a “white paradise”. I did make the point that the host population (not just white) have been forced to surrender their culture as other aggressive cultures have concentrated and pushed the host away. It’s a legitimate and reasoned point
- This was the stuff used against the Jewish community in the East End in the 19th century, against the immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean in the 50s, it's just tedious and cruel.
You are trying to associate my points of fact with standard stereotypes. Mass migration always results in stresses. Ask native Americans or indigenous peoples of Australia and New Zealand. It should be carefully managed. It hasn’t been.
- I definitely do not respect you. Oh and for someone who left London you seem to be obsessed with its day to day doings. Maybe time to do something for your new community and leave the past behind eh? We are really going to be better off without you.
“So there ner”. How old are you? For the record I do plenty for my local community and for people of other races and cultures. i borrowed money to sponsor a black comprehensive school student through Oxford. I successfully campaigned to increase the admissions from minorities (including the white urban poor) to Oxbridge
Sorry, but I am not the Reform, populist you like to think of when anyone suggests legitimate concerns about the negative effects of too much migration too quickly into London.
London was far from perfect before, but it has suffered serious setbacks and the fact so many of the host communities have migrated away is proof of that.
"Just look at Hungary. Look at the United States."
Not sure exactly what I'm looking at - US cities are very badly (Democrat) run while I imagine Hungarian cities are rather nice? I haven't been in ages.
London is far nicer than it was 30 years ago. Whether it is nicer than it was 10 years ago I'm not sure.
I'm referring to noted authoritarian nationalist regimes and their corrupt leaders, Orban and Trump.
Yes I'm just not sure what that reference has to do with the state/future of London!
Lol. I am one of millions who have moved away from London because it has been lost to foreign cultures and values and consequently has become a place where crime has exploded and convictions disappeared. Nice try at the standard Liberal “cry wolfism” but anyone who has lived there knows the truth.
Well, Ken, I've lived in London since 1979....
Where? Not Barking. I am sure of that.